Rabbi Shmuel Fuerst (left), speaking with Rabbi Micah Greenland.
Rabbi Shmuel Fuerst, rav of Agudas Yisrael of Peterson Park, Chicago, Illinois, and a dayan for more than forty years, in discussion with Rabbi Micah Greenland, international director of NCSY. Rabbi Phil Karesh, executive director of the OU’s Community Projects & Partnerships, moderated.
Rabbi Phil Karesh:
What are the sources in halachic literature for the obligation to reach out to our secular Jewish brothers and sisters? Is the obligation Biblical or rabbinic? As a corollary, how does the obligation apply to the average member of the Orthodox community?
Rabbi Shmuel Fuerst:
Our obligation to engage in outreach is included in the Biblical obligation to love our fellow Jew—“v’ahavta l’rei’acha kamocha” (Vayikra 19:18).
The obligation is also included in other mitzvos as well. Rambam says in Hilchos Yesodei HaTorah that we have a mitzvah to love Hashem, ahavas Hashem. He also discusses in the beginning of Hilchos Avodah Zarah how avodah zarah (idol worship) first evolved, going back to the generation of Enosh, when mankind made a great mistake. Rambam brings down what Avraham Avinu did—how he spread knowledge of Hashem to the rest of the world—which is what we should be doing as well.
Of the 613 mitzvos, whatever mitzvos we can do, we are obligated to do. One might argue, “I’m a businessman, I’m not an outreach professional.” But even in the workplace, there are opportunities. How about learning a mishnah with a secular work colleague during lunch break? Furthermore, people who can’t do kiruv directly can contribute to the mitzvah financially. We must see to it that Yidden remain Yidden. That’s our obligation.
Obviously, we are not going to reach every secular Jew, but we need to do whatever we can do, even if we only reach 10 or 20 percent. Every Jew has that responsibility to bring Jews back to the Ribbono Shel Olam.
The obligation is also included in the prohibition of “lo sa’amod al dam rei’echa—You shall not stand idly by [when] the blood (life) of your fellow [is in danger]” (Vayikra 19:16). If you see someone drowning, you are halachically obligated to save him. Similarly, if you see someone drowning spiritually, you must save him.
RPK: Obviously, in any Orthodox Jewish community, there are significant donors who sustain the community—some support kollelim, some support schools, others support shuls, et cetera. How should we prioritize communal resources from a halachic perspective as it relates to reaching out to our secular Jewish brothers and sisters?
RSF: First we must support yeshivas and day schools. Our educational institutions need to survive.
At the same time, we can’t forget about our non-frum brothers and sisters. We know that if they get a proper Jewish education, there is a good chance they will become shomer Torah u’mitzvos. If they don’t get the proper Jewish education, the risk of intermarriage is very high.
So from a halachic standpoint, our first obligation is to continue to support local institutions and to keep the status quo. Then after that—once we ensure our own foundations are solid—we must fund institutions that engage in outreach to those outside the frum community.
Rabbi Micah Greenland:
I just want to clarify: the Dayan referred to safeguarding our communal Torah institutions. But it would seem that different times demand different responses. Right now, with so many Jews seeking to strengthen their Jewish identity post-October 7, outreach seems more urgent and perhaps we need to extend ourselves further. Would Rabbi Fuerst agree that when we have an opportunity to act “while the iron is hot,” we should do so to inspire Jewish identity?
RSF: Yes, I agree. There are, baruch Hashem, enough resources in the community to support all that is needed.
RPK: The Six-Day War was a great catalyst for the teshuvah movement. Should we view October 7 similarly? Is this something that will last?
RSF: I recall that the teshuvah movement really got off the ground after the Six-Day War. That’s when Aish HaTorah, Ohr Somayach and all other yeshivos for ba’alei teshuvah were founded. And the kiruv movement spread across the world, to Chicago, Dallas, Houston and so on.
There were other such resurgences, like the Yom Kippur War. Whenever there are tzaros (troubles), pain, suffering and antisemitism, Jews tend to wake up and feel their Jewishness more intensely.
With all that has happened since October 7 and especially the growing antisemitism in this country, we have a great opportunity to engage in kiruv.
If you see someone drowning, you are halachically obligated to save him. Similarly, if you see someone drowning spiritually, you must save him.
RMG: No question, the broader Jewish world has experienced significant spiritual growth since October 7, but I see this unfolding in two distinct stages. The first stage is a strengthening of Jewish identity. Before October 7, many Jews were so integrated and assimilated into American society that Jewish teenagers in public high school often seemed indistinguishable from any other student. They weren’t likely to say out loud, “I’m a Jew, and I’m proud.”
But since October 7, we’ve witnessed a remarkable surge in Jewish identification. We’ve seen more girls proudly wearing Magen David necklaces, and more boys who are comfortable donning a yarmulke or putting on tefillin. Jewish Student Union (JSU) clubs in public high schools have grown by 26 percent in the last year alone. Before October 7, about 15,000 students participated in JSU programs; that number has now climbed to nearly 19,000.
That’s the first wave—an amplification of Jewish identification—and we must make the most of this moment. The second stage is deeper: it’s about connecting Jews to their own neshamos—their spiritual essence and yearning—which they may or may not be aware of. Once these young people feel a stronger sense of Jewish identity, we have an incredible opportunity to help them tap into their spiritual yearnings. More and more public school students are davening, reciting Tehillim, even attending Shabbos meals and wearing tzitzis. We’re only beginning to scratch the surface of what’s possible, but the potential is enormous.
In response to your question about whether this will last—I think the mask has come off in American society. The America I grew up in wasn’t overtly antisemitic. Most Jews back then didn’t even encounter antisemitism, or if they did, it was rare and isolated. Today, baruch Hashem, the majority of Americans still stand with us. But there’s also a very vocal and sizable minority that is actively hostile toward Judaism and the Jewish community. That hostility, I believe, is going to fuel a lasting sense of Jewish identification. It’s going to create a real need for youth and adults alike to say, “Okay, if this is the climate we’re living in, then I need solidarity. I need community. I need to embrace my identity and reconnect with heritage.”
RPK: What opportunities are inherent in this moment that might not have been possible before October 7?
RSF: There’s a unique opportunity to try and recruit Jewish students attending public school and get them into Jewish day schools. We should consider creating special tracks or classes for these students, as they can’t just be placed in a day school class. Many of them probably can’t read Hebrew and simply lack the background. But the question of how to integrate these students should be left up to each school.
RMG: And the Rav is saying it’s a communal obligation to recruit these students and provide a day school education for them. Correct?
Show them a love for Yiddishkeit. . . . Children have to see simchas hachaim, a joy in living a religious life.
RSF: Yes, it’s a communal obligation. Every school should make provisions for this. Even before October 7, when a public school student would express interest in attending a Jewish day school, it would often present a challenge, as generally speaking, our day schools are not equipped to handle public school students and they have no idea where to place them or how to integrate them. Our schools need to create specific tracks for these students with kiruv professionals serving as rebbeim. Understandably you don’t want to have twenty public school students in one day school class, but six or seven could, with the right attention and care, be properly integrated.
RPK: So the Dayan envisions integrating public school students into existing day schools rather than creating separate institutions?
RSF: Yes, ideally every day school across the country should have some sort of track for this within its existing structure. This is a better approach than creating a separate school because it allows non-frum Jewish students to learn from frum students. Of course, the school needs to be mindful about how to approach this. If done well, full integration could be seamless within a year or two.
But if there is strong opposition to creating such a track due to concerns about the influence on frum students, then by all means, a new school should be established. The key is not to just sit by and do nothing.
RMG: I want to add that this is a unique moment. There is momentum toward Jewish identification now that we haven’t seen in decades—maybe ever in my lifetime.
RSF: And it will probably continue for a while.
RPK: I want to touch upon the various approaches to kiruv. Rabbi Noach Weinberg, founder of Aish HaTorah, and Rabbi Mendel Weinbach, founding rosh yeshivah of Ohr Somayach, each had different opinions on success in outreach. Rabbi Weinberg believed the goal should be to cast a wide net and prevent intermarriage. Rabbi Weinbach, on the other hand, believed in encouraging maximum growth in individuals, or as Rabbi Edelstein puts it, “help someone go all the way—to mainstream and graduate into the Mir.” How should success be defined in the context of outreach?
RSF: Rabbi Weinberg and Rabbi Weinbach were both correct. This isn’t contradictory. Some people will unfortunately never become shomer Torah u’mitzvos. While ideally the goal is to help a person become a shomer Torah u’mitzvos and integrate into the community since that guarantees survival, not everyone can do that. Not everyone wants to give up his non-observant lifestyle. You’re not going to change that. But if you can help him solidify his Jewish identity and give him a strong enough feeling for Judaism so that he won’t intermarry, that’s also a tremendous accomplishment. If they marry Jewish, there’s a good chance their children will come to shemiras hamitzvos. You never know. Nowadays you often find children of ba’alei teshuvah who are beki’im b’Shas (experts in all of Gemara) or even roshei yeshivah; many of them are better talmidim than the students whose parents are frum from birth. There are no guarantees in life.
RMG: Rabbi Fuerst will correct me if I’m wrong, but when I’m asked about my definition of success in outreach, I always say—even if we don’t hit the mark completely, how can we think we’re not successful? The ultimate goal is to help a Jew become a shomer Torah u’mitzvos, but if we’re able to prevent intermarriage, isn’t that also something that brings nachas ruach to the Ribbono Shel Olam?
RSF: Of course.
RPK: What about kiruv kerovim, outreach to those already frum? Does it carry the same halachic obligation we discussed earlier or is it separate? Obviously, there’s a difference in engaging with Jews who know very little versus Jews who may go to shul regularly or are at least part of a frum community. Is this a time for additional inspiration and connection to be fostered among those who are already frum, and if so, what strategies should be employed?
RSF: It seems to me that we have to fight on all fronts. The halachic obligations for kiruv rechokim and for kiruv kerovim are the same. There are hundreds and hundreds of individuals who come from frum backgrounds and went through our yeshivah and day school system who are for some reason no longer frum today. We have to be mekarev them too. Sometimes it’s easier to be mekarev someone who knows what Yiddishkeit is. And a lot of these young people do come back. Oftentimes they will go off the derech for a few years, but after some time they see the light, they see the emes in Torah. But even the student who is shomer Torah u’mitzvos needs some special attention from a rebbi. Today’s rebbeim have to be psychologists too. Young people today are very fragile. The whole generation is fragile. Everyone needs kiruv.
RPK: I’m sure the Dayan has received hundreds of phone calls over the years from families who are concerned about their children going off the derech. What advice would the Dayan give to parents?
RSF: Show them a love for Yiddishkeit. Show them that you enjoy going to shul. Don’t make it seem like a burden. Demonstrate a love for mitzvos. Children have to see simchas hachaim, a joy in living a religious life. They have to see a loving marriage between their father and mother.
You have to show them the beauty of Yiddishkeit.
RPK: Rabbi Greenland, since NCSY engages in both kiruv kerovim and kiruv rechokim, when you run Shabbatonim, you often have a mix of students—the typical public school teens who might not be observant yet and day school students as well. So I’m really curious to hear your perspective on the kiruv kerovim aspect.
RMG: I agree that the obligations are similar. I would say there is a dual crisis within American Jewry.
On one hand, with Jewish students who are completely disenfranchised, we have the crisis of illiteracy, apathy and assimilation. Then there’s a separate crisis within the frum community—young people for whom Shabbos isn’t really Shabbos, and whose davening isn’t really davening. That’s its own crisis, and Rabbi Fuerst’s strategies for parents are spot on.
If we wait too long, it will be too late. We must act now.
I think there’s an important distinction in how we need to approach these two crises. There are many communal organizations focused on the frum community and therefore partnership is critical. We have to work together—parents, schools, shuls and communal chinuch organizations like NCSY—to enhance these teens’ Yiddishkeit while respecting the role each individual partner plays.
This is generally not the case when it comes to students with a minimal connection to the Jewish community; for them, becoming more Jewishly engaged is often a lonely pursuit. There’s no school dedicated to providing a Torah education to those individuals. There’s no shul giving them a framework for religious growth. So when we’re dealing with such students, we need very specific strategies to find them, educate them and inspire them.
RSF: We need to realize just how crucial kiruv kerovim is as well as kiruv rechokim.
We have to support all kiruv efforts. But specifically now, after October 7, we need to start putting more funding into building up the kiruv organizations that reach out to the unaffiliated. A car can’t run without gas, and these organizations can’t operate without adequate funding. The ba’alei batim in each community should be at the forefront of this.
Now is the time to save those Jews who are leaving due to escalating rates of intermarriage and assimilation. Mi laHashem eilai! (Who is for Hashem, join me!)
If we wait too long, it will be too late. We must act now.